Swailes: The Friendly Green With

I'm Megan Hamilton and this is the Embracing Enchantment podcast. My guest today was one of the first people in the podcasting community outside of my network who reached out and helped signal boost. She hails from West Yorkshire in the UK and she is the friendly green witch of the award winning Belle Witch podcast. A reiki healer, plant mom and full-time parent to two little witchlings, she is passionate about sigils, mental health and magic.

Please welcome my guest, Swailes! Hello Swailes, I'm so glad you're here!

Swailes (01:06.196)
Now then, yes, thank you so much for having me all the way from across the pond,

Megan Hamilton (01:11.369)
I know it's so nice that we get to do things like this. Like one thing about everything shutting down a few years ago is that we did end up finding a way so that we could have a lot more conversations like this and meet friendly people around the world who have similar interests.

Swailes (01:29.966)
Totally, yeah. Although it is a blessing and a curse at times.

Megan Hamilton (01:33.131)
It's true. Like today I've been on calls since 10 o'clock. It's now three and for whatever reason about two hours ago I was on zoom. We record on Riverside for listeners who don't know my zoom just crapped out and I'm like, okay, well now now I have to solve this in the anyways, whatever, whatever.

Swailes (01:57.359)
Zoom is rubbish. For podcasting it is no good.

Megan Hamilton (01:59.883)
No, it's definitely not good for podcasting. It's just how I it's how I see clients. It's I feel like Riverside as much as I do enjoy it for client calls, it's just it doesn't it's a little bit. OK. I guess that's the one we're using today. Yeah, exactly. It's just feels it's everything has its own.

Swailes (02:19.288)
jumping card.

Megan Hamilton (02:26.823)
speciality right and Riverside to me just doesn't it doesn't work as well for client stuff I'm just gonna launch into the card because I think it's kind of interesting for a lot of reasons. Two of Pentacles I know so

Swailes (02:35.437)
Yeah, go for it.

What we got? What we got? All balanced!

Megan Hamilton (02:50.921)
When I so obviously there's so many different ways of looking at this card. And for those who are new to tarot pentacles are in the realm of the earth. We associate them with things related to career and money. That's the easy one. But then you can go deeper into seeing them as related to the body or behavior or kind of materialism. And I mean materialism in the sense of like

material tangible things, not, you know, like buying things. And also to me, because I wear a pentacle around my neck and in fact, for swales, she has a pentacle like as part of her, yeah, around your neck as well. Which reminds me, do you know the story about the pentacle breaking on my neck? okay, all right.

Swailes (03:42.883)
No?

Megan Hamilton (03:45.483)
I'll save that for another time because listeners would have heard that already. But anyways, to me, pentacles symbolize the magic of being alive. So they symbolize the integration of human existence as well as the magic that is part of that inherent in in in our humanity. So with the two, certainly, you you mentioned at the beginning balance.

And there's an infinity symbol wrapped around two pentacles. And this person is kind of doing what looks like a dance. So they're kind of like it's the infinite dance of balance. It's trying to keep things balanced. And behind them is waves and really, really up and down waves with ships on them. For me, ships means energy out is.

energy in. And so we put out into the world what wants to come back to us or what will come back to us. It might just look different. It might take a different shape or form than we expected, but also the ups and downs of emotions and the ups and downs of of money, which certainly a lot of people are feeling these days. And when this card is upright, to me, it usually means we're doing a good job.

We're balancing a lot, we're juggling a lot, but we're still going, right? The balls haven't fallen. And I would say if we were to relate it to today or like this particular point in history, that certainly rings true where I don't know anyone who isn't juggling regular life, all of the news.

and then the financial insecurity, the ups and downs that are coming, the waves of emotion. What's your response to that, Swales?

Swailes (05:47.063)
I think there's definitely a dance of balance, but I read this card as like, you're enjoying the show, like you are the person that's enjoying the balance and yeah, you're busy, but you're thriving in the busyness. And also the fact that there's a scene behind you that's quite rocky, try to pay attention to your surroundings, don't be distracted by all the things you're balancing. So that's how I read that card. It's very positive and quite joyful.

and it asks a lot from you, but you can, you've got it, you can do this, but also don't go too far into what you're doing. Take a look around you. Smell the roses.

Megan Hamilton (06:20.223)
Yeah.

Megan Hamilton (06:26.675)
Right, right, right, right. Yes. It's like that thing of where you're, if you're trying to do a lot of things, you kind of have to go with the flow of it. But once you start focusing or fixating on one thing, every everything falls, falls apart. It is the card, perhaps of ADHD, even juggling all of the things. OK, so. I've been curious about.

Swailes (06:39.596)
Yes, exactly, yes.

yeah! I love it!

Megan Hamilton (06:56.203)
How, because you live your life as a witch and how did you get into witchcraft and you know, maybe for those looking to incorporate more magic into their lives. What is the day in the, your life look like?

Swailes (07:13.312)
It was a very slow process for me personally, discovering that I was a witch. Took me a few years, I must say. I've always been unusual against the grain type. Like I was a goth, I was growing up, I used to wipe my face and wear the fangs. Yeah, we all did. And I relished being the black sheep. I didn't like what was popular, what was fashionable, and I didn't get things. Even now, I still don't get things. And that's okay because I'm not meant to get them. They're not for me.

Megan Hamilton (07:42.187)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Swailes (07:43.639)
My mum was always a spooky person too. I mean, she used to read Tarot and Oracle and she was a very gifted psychic medium, palmist, she did psychometry. So I grew up with it. Like I grew up going to spiritualist churches and I knew there were witches. I think I knew there were witches in the world. I liked films like, you know, the typical craft, practical magic. My mum would never say she was a witch because back then it was quite stigmatized, but I wasn't.

You know, I knew what stuff was about and I wasn't fazed by anything. She died when I was quite young. And then I was angry throughout my 20s because she died when I was 19. And then only after I had my first baby, Florence, did I discover witchcraft, which sounds bizarre to me, honestly. I can't believe I didn't grasp it before then. I obviously wasn't ready. So I started looking then for.

communities to bond with in all different types of parenting. So there's lots of, there's like messy church and there's like baby groups and baby sensory, baby massage and they were good, but they weren't quite there. Especially the messy church. Like I want this kind of community, but it's not the right one. And I got invited to a creative morning.

Megan Hamilton (08:54.091)
Mm-hmm.

Megan Hamilton (09:01.161)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Swailes (09:06.946)
thing at somebody's house, some random woman's house who invited me to come baby wearing and that was such a spiritual gathering. It was absolutely beautiful and life changing, massively life changing. know, these women were like walking around topless, breastfeeding the babies on demand, baby wearing, milk sharing, co-sleeping, everything. It was a beautiful community.

Megan Hamilton (09:31.36)
Mm-hmm.

Swailes (09:31.649)
And I discovered walking labyrinths and goddess worship, drawing your knees and all that really cool stuff. And one of them sent me a box in the post, a surprise box. were all the rage back then, do remember them? You just turn up, it's like, what's in here? What's this? And I opened the box and it was a witch themed box. And there were like a tiny little cauldron in it and a candle and some herbs. A book called Witch.

Megan Hamilton (09:44.555)
so nice.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Swailes (10:01.134)
and some other stuff, know, like trinkets and a talisman. And I read this book and it were like, blimey, this is what I had been looking for. And I did the spell that came with the box and got right into it. I lived it and breathed it and touched it and made tea with it and went to moon circles and discovered sigils, which changed my life again. And then I found Reiki and got...

my first and second levels and that like projected me into it all then. was like all these doors were opening and it was the happiest I'd ever been. And I've lived that way ever since. That amazing subscription box that changed my life.

Megan Hamilton (10:46.315)
So interesting because I my first subscription box was from a friend and it was I think in 2020 and it ended up when I had I had a recent guest Kate Ballou and then I realized that she's part of the same community that the box had come from and I made that connection of wow okay so we're talking about just just the synchronicities that can happen but those boxes are so fun.

Swailes (11:16.28)
the aphid.

Megan Hamilton (11:17.237)
They're so fun to get. That's that is so lovely and talk about right place and right time and you know, so do you still stay in community with those women?

Swailes (11:31.223)
Not so much now though, they've all sort of dived off into different things because all our first borns of that time are 10 now. But I mean, I still do journaling groups with some of them, which are via Zoom, like community of maternal journals and things like that. But because I got pregnant again reasonably quickly, and by that time I was living the witchy dream.

So that pregnancy was just so much more empowering and beautiful because I had my spirituality as a witch and confidence in my body to deliver another little baby. And the birth was amazing. And I met a witch online who did me a perfect birth spell and it all just, gosh, was a bit, and I wish I'd have found it earlier, but I mustn't beat myself up about that. Cause obviously, you know, it wasn't right. wasn't the time. I was probably in the wrong place for it.

But I'm here now and I love it.

Megan Hamilton (12:31.126)
Yeah, yes. It's so interesting to me because I, I in high school, I was very similar to you. Psychic fairs and crystals and all kinds of things. And then I was given a tarot deck when I was 22 or 23. And then, you know, here we are almost 30 years later, still reading tarot.

but much more connected to the spirituality and the, know, witchcraft and connection to nature and connection to, you know, kind of everybody and everything through that work, right? Like it makes you be more intentional about what you're doing, who you're spending your time with, where you're putting your energy, what you want to bring up in the world.

Swailes (13:25.486)
Absolutely, yeah.

Megan Hamilton (13:28.757)
There's it's it's hilarious that the that our idea of witches is has been evil up until, know, you get to a certain age, you're like, wait a minute. Every witch that I know is actually quite lovely and very helpful and, you know, joyful, as you say. So so then where does the podcast come into play? Because you've now.

Swailes (13:40.814)
Yeah.

Megan Hamilton (13:57.791)
been running it for over three years and congratulations on 55,000 downloads. That's an incredible number. Where did that begin and how did you get started podcasting?

Swailes (14:05.262)
Thank you, thank you.

Swailes (14:12.824)
So that was another accidental thing. One of my communities, actually Hannah of Cult Mother, I joined Hannah's community in again 2020 and they were doing the artist's way, like a community, 12 step program to unblock you as a creative. And I was starting writing a lot of poetry and entering poetry competitions and nearly winning, not quite winning, but nearly winning.

Megan Hamilton (14:19.704)
Megan Hamilton (14:28.232)
yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Swailes (14:39.79)
and feeling good about sharing my poetry and stuff. And at the time I was listening to a podcast, it wasn't a witchy podcast, it was like a comedy podcast, which Hannah also did a little bit in called Single Fat and Forty. And I'd be on treadmill, you know, in gym laughing, laughing my ass off at this podcast. And then the host abruptly stopped and I were devastated. I was in an inbox going like, have you gone? Oh my God, please don't stop, please don't stop. And she was like, I've fallen out love with it, you know, it's time kind of thing.

and said to me, if you care that much, why don't you do one? And I was a bit like, why don't I do one? I don't know why I don't, because I was doing the ice way. Any other time I'd have been like, no way, I have no idea how to do this. I'd only just got into listening to podcasts because somebody told me about uncanny and that's why I started listening to them and then found there were so many on all kinds of amazing topics.

Megan Hamilton (15:21.813)
Hmm?

Megan Hamilton (15:29.983)
Mm-hmm.

Swailes (15:35.311)
So I remember the first time me and my friend, Jodie, who started the podcast together, I used to go up to her house and drink a tea and just talk nonsense and bring the world to rights. you know, cause we both had little babies, we were both witches and she's been a witch all her life. So she knew quite a lot of cool stuff. So I was learning from her in the early stages. And then I said to her, you've been like a co-host to help me. Cause I can't do it on my own. How can I talk to myself?

which is really hard, it is really, really hard.

Megan Hamilton (16:03.915)
The solo episodes are not my fave.

Swailes (16:08.48)
No, the text so much more from us, don't they, than a guest. So we did 10 episodes together and by episode, I would say six, I could tell she wasn't really up for it anymore. She was losing interest, she was late, she didn't turn up. Whereas I was the other way, I was like, I just wanna do another one. I just wanna do another one. So I'd be like, when I am busy, you try do it yourself. So I did one myself, the very first one. And when I listen to it now, I cringe, absolutely cringe.

But there's just amazing magic, isn't there? When you've edited and you put it online, you press share, and then it gets a download and you go, somebody's just listened to my podcast. another one, another one. And it's magic. And I always say, witchcraft, raking, and podcasting are like my golden trio of healing. Them three things together have changed my life. Like I'm just so happy.

Megan Hamilton (16:53.227)
Hmm.

Swailes (17:05.383)
I've never been this happy in my life.

Megan Hamilton (17:09.387)
I mean, that's the kind of story we just all love to hear and need right now. You know, that self-empowerment, that idea of leaning into something and following your the breadcrumbs, as my friend Amy says, and finding your way to this joy that and it does. I mean, you do get that from you like that is part of

Swailes (17:17.845)
I know.

Megan Hamilton (17:38.473)
your energy straight out of the gate. As soon as you encounter anything that you've done, you're just like, okay, this is this is somebody who's really leaning into the good stuff that life has to offer. Right. And I mean, I don't mean to we all have difficult challenges and all kinds of stuff, obviously, but there is something about finding your niche in spirituality and finding

Swailes (17:48.014)
you

Megan Hamilton (18:06.133)
finding your way and having that connection that does bring, it's a very different kind of deepening of what is joyful for you, right? It's a feeling you get when you look at a tree that perhaps, I don't know, you didn't have before.

Swailes (18:23.278)
Yeah, it's changed me internally, massively. How I react to things, how I'm received, how I'm disliked. Like, the last 10 years, I've learned to just be alright with being disliked. Before then, my whole life, I was desperate to be liked, to be popular, to be part of a gang, to be somebody that people want to be with. Why did I care so much? I have absolutely no idea. But...

You know, I realize it's our responsibility to choose how we receive things and how we react to them. Like people go down going, my God, I'm triggered. I'm triggered. I mean, yeah, that sucks. Be triggered if you need to be, but don't hold it and don't take it with you into your future. Learn from it, swallow it, let it go. I read this fantastic book called The Courage to Be Disliked.

And that's another life changing book along with the let them theory and all that kind of stuff. Like reading that book just again, projected me a little bit further and I always bring it back to because witchcraft keeps me responsible for myself, my impact on myself and my impacts on the environment and the impact also on other people. All those things, honestly, amazing.

Megan Hamilton (19:38.219)
Mm-hmm.

Megan Hamilton (19:42.155)
It's really good stuff. Yeah, it's isn't that interesting. I mean, I think my I would connect to your path in a similar way in that. And for me, it's an ongoing it's ongoing work to, you know, not worry about what people think. And the older I get, the more it deepens, obviously. And I think now I'm in a place where I'm, you know, I'm doing kind of stuff that like

Swailes (19:44.567)
It's good stuff.

Megan Hamilton (20:10.155)
30 year old me would be fine so cringe and I'm like, honey, you don't even understand what is available to you when you stop giving a shit what people think. It only gets better. Yes. And, and there is something about being a witch that I don't know if it speeds it up or it gives you, it gives you a focus. gives you a community, whether or not you decide to

Swailes (20:19.38)
Yeah, it only gets better!

Megan Hamilton (20:39.423)
be in community with others. Like it gives you something to hold on to that allows you to really find who you truly are and not just again trying to people please your way through life.

Swailes (20:54.51)
Yeah. And you just started being in a band. Have you, have you been in band? How amazing is that? mean, when I saw that I was a bit like, wow, that is, because I know you speak publicly on like Ted X and stuff, which is also amazing.

Megan Hamilton (20:57.739)
Hehehehehe

Megan Hamilton (21:08.331)
Yeah, so in my one phase of my life, I am a TEDx coach and a speaking coach and I work with small business owners and then I've been a musician for since my late 20s and I've been making my own music for years. four of us recently, well, maybe four or five months ago, we got together and we're all perimenopausal and

We started a band called Hag and we play. We've it's really fun. It is. So we had our first show on the weekend and yeah, like like I've been saying, I highly recommend getting together with your other perimenopausal friends and scream singing out your rage. Like talk about the throat chakra. My throat chakra has been getting a pretty good workout in the last little bit.

Swailes (21:39.006)
So into it, it's incredible!

Swailes (22:04.129)
You

Megan Hamilton (22:04.383)
but it is so fulfilling and we're all very committed to the group but also just to each other. So, I mean, almost every time we had a practice there's a snowstorm and we're still showing up, we're still leaving our houses. I mean, you know what it's like. Some of us have kids, some of us don't in this band, but you've had all day with a kid and...

You know, then you've got to make dinner and you're working and you're all the rest of it. And then it's like, OK, now I need to switch gears and I need to like log all of my heavy stuff out. And there's a snowstorm. So I need to take the snow off the car and then drive 20 minutes and show up. And and then as soon as I get there, it's just it turns into magic. Like it's it's so fun and talk about joyful. Like, yes. So, highly recommend.

Swailes (22:55.118)
It's so inspiring, I really am inspired. Even though my confidence has grown and I podcast, I still have a fear of speaking publicly. I find it really hard. That is obviously something deep, deep within my fibres from childhood, from being laughed at, because I wasn't very popular. And I annoy myself because people go, well, do you want to come speak at this conference? You're a podcaster? And it's like, no. That's completely different because people are going to be looking at me.

Megan Hamilton (23:20.235)
No. Listen, if that happens, just reach out to me. I will help you. But like if you're getting asked to speak at things, you got to do it. We'll figure that out. Yeah.

Swailes (23:25.666)
safe behind the computer.

Swailes (23:33.646)
I know, yeah, I will do eventually. I must, I know I must, but I got invited to speak to a moot in November and I really, really wanted to say yeah and I went a bit like, I can't, I will one day but not this November.

Megan Hamilton (23:38.165)
Mm-hmm.

Megan Hamilton (23:49.067)
Mm hmm. This coming November or last November? Okay, the next one before you answer, just get in touch with me. We'll hop on a call and we'll make we'll talk it through. Okay. Okay. Okay. So when did you begin to work with Reiki? And how do you work with folks because I have my Reiki one too. And I'm about to start my Reiki too.

Swailes (23:52.204)
last November that's just gone, yeah.

Swailes (23:59.727)
Amazing. Thank you.

Swailes (24:12.75)
So I got my Reiki one in 2020 in between us all being thrown together in his houses and locked in. And that was because my witchy tutor, Louise Bloomer, the Wiccan ladies taught me pretty much everything I know. You know, she does witch school and she did Reiki one. I was a bit like, I might do that, you know, just for fun because I can, because we're allowed. So I went over to her house and she in tuned me. And the idea was just do it on.

myself, my kids, my plants, the carve, it breaks down. So it felt natural to, because I wanted the symbol. So I did the Reiki too. And then I went on a retreat a year later, which happened to be with some of the parents actually from that mum group, that's the they spoke about. And we were doing some journaling and somebody went, my back's killing me. I'm so uncomfortable. And I said, well, do want me to give you some Reiki? And she were like, you're, you're, you do Reiki? I said, yeah.

Megan Hamilton (24:51.349)
Mm-hmm.

Megan Hamilton (24:58.474)
Mm-hmm.

Swailes (25:12.206)
a couple of years ago. So I did rake it and it helped her. And then of course somebody else came in and went, can I have some? And I was like, yeah. And then, can I have some? Okay. And then I was like, hang on a minute. Do people want this from me? So I spoke to my tutor and she were like, you can totally do that. And I was like, but I'm not a master. Don't you have to be a master too?

Megan Hamilton (25:28.107)
Mmm.

Swailes (25:38.413)
make it like a business. And she said, no, no, the Reiki master is so you can like initiate others, which I'm not that interested in. And so again, the universe kind of like shoved me, you know, like go do some Reiki. So I was renting people's rooms, you know, in crystal shops and doing the odd person here and there, which is really hard because it is again, you know, like getting your name out there. And I still really haven't found the right place to do it in terms of

a private space. But I do a lot in the summer when I I camp with my kids in my bell tent, hence the bell witch. I take a little bed and do some reiki from the tent, which people love. People love reiki from a bell tent. And that's when it makes complete sense to me. And I love doing it. You'll know yourself when you do reiki, the healer also benefits because the energy comes through you. It's not your energy. You're just a vessel.

Megan Hamilton (26:16.299)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Megan Hamilton (26:31.083)
Hmm.

Swailes (26:38.732)
And then I also connect with Spirit and my guides and my Reiki horse and my mind's like a cinema, you know, all this amazing imagery comes in and I write it down because I think, I remember that. And of course I never do because it's not mine to remember. And then at the end of the Reiki session, I'll read out what I've written and, know, like nine times out of 10 people are like, whoa, that's wild that you know all that.

Megan Hamilton (26:51.856)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Swailes (27:04.066)
can tell when people are pregnant and when people need to drink and like if they get new hobbies, a golf or, you know, I see you playing golf. It's bananas.

Megan Hamilton (27:15.167)
Well, it's interesting because you said that your mom was a psychic medium, right? And so the mediumship is with spirits, but the psychic ability is with sometimes with people who are living. so maybe you maybe that got passed on to you and that.

Swailes (27:38.255)
I suspect it did, yeah. I mean, I held her onto quite high pedestal because she was amazing. I mean, she could tell people all kinds of things. And this was pre-internet. This was like the nineties, know, like early 2000s and the nineties and the eighties. That's how she made friends. She'd go up to people at a bus stop and go like, does the name Margaret mean anything to you? Oh yeah, she's just passed. Oh, I can tell she's got a sister here. She'd go on this plane.

or upstairs, like, I know your dad's upstairs and he's talking about a dog called blah, blah, blah. And they'd be like, what, who the heck is this? But she used to use tarot cards very differently to how lot of people use them today. Like she used them as a tool to connect with spirit. And for a long time, I thought that was how people use tarot, know, not reading, not literally reading the card, just putting a card down and then she'd get.

Messages from upstairs as she called it So I were baffled when I asked met people online doing it just be like this this picture here means this and this picture means I was like wow I didn't they could do that But yeah, it's like Tarot cards are like siblings to me I grew up with them and she were a collector and she had like bookcases of them And I want allowed to touch them. They were very sacred to her. She never let people shuffle them. She would shuffle them and then Ask them, know questions what?

card they're drawn to, like, ooh, the shadow card, or if someone dropped on the floor, she'd be like, ooh, this one is special too. So when you did that, it was like, I know this.

Megan Hamilton (29:17.59)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I always love a jumper. That's when you know, tarot is ready for business. It's like, let's go come on, stop the shuffling. It doesn't matter.

Swailes (29:24.778)
A jumper? A jumper to me is like a sweater.

Megan Hamilton (29:29.265)
sweater. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so because I haven't started Reiki to yet, so I don't know and I've been avoiding looking or finding anything about the symbols. I know that they're there. I know they're coming, but I don't know them yet. But I'm also curious. I did have an interesting Reiki experience the other day where some stuff because I don't have one of those.

Swailes (29:31.663)
Love it.

Megan Hamilton (29:57.971)
Sorry, it comes and goes. But when I close my eyes, I don't see things. I don't have like a visual, you know how people are like, go to the beautiful green space and find your common happy place. I have like an idea of it, but I don't see it where I know a lot of people like see things in their mind, except when I'm in a hypnagog kind of state. So that's like right before white when you wake up or right before you go to sleep and you're kind of

like half awake, that's when I can really visualize things. And so if I do Reiki first thing when I wake up, then I have these bananas visualizations and they're, you know, colors. Sometimes they're, sometimes they're pictures or objects or something like that, or sometimes I can make them, but I feel like, so I'm curious. I feel like I saw one of the Reiki symbols.

so when we go to see them, I'm excited to see if I was right, even if I remember, but you have talked about, you know, the symbols and that's why you wanted to start Reiki too same, but you're also really interested in sigils and there's a similarity to the idea of, know, of a, of a drawn object.

it's kind of holding the magic. And I wonder if you can speak to that a bit.

Swailes (31:30.008)
Yeah, they are very, very similar. I guess the histories of them is quite different, but they do the same job, just using different, well, I don't know if it's even different energy, if it's what we understand as different energy, it's probably the same energy, to be fair. But like, they do look, they do look sigillant. Maybe that's why I love them so much, because I'm always drawing them everywhere I go, know, like on my hands and on my heart and everywhere.

Megan Hamilton (31:47.04)
Hmm

Megan Hamilton (31:58.759)
Eureka cymbals. I'm so excited for this part.

Swailes (31:59.883)
Yeah, yeah, I draw them everywhere. It is really good. And I reckon because you've started having visualisations when you get level two, you'll probably unleash that. You'll like unlock it, I think. So, so get ready. But do you hear, do you hear stuff as well?

Megan Hamilton (32:14.645)
Great, that's all I want.

Megan Hamilton (32:20.86)
so.

I have a bit of tinnitus. So that's like bit of ringing in my ears. And I've always thought that I could be able to tune it. Like if I could figure out how to, I don't know how to explain it. I think it's there. I have definitely heard, I heard my grandfather once and I've heard, I heard a different voice another time. Not friendly, but served its purpose.

But no, generally no, except that I also always have music running through my head. Like always, like I'm never not, I'm never not got something looping in my head.

Swailes (33:08.32)
earworm.

Megan Hamilton (33:09.897)
Yeah, but like never stops, ever.

Swailes (33:12.536)
keeps you awake at night. I get that.

Megan Hamilton (33:16.252)
I think I'm so used to it that I can phase it out, but I wonder sometimes if it blocks me from what I would hope to be able to hear. Like, do you hear stuff?

Swailes (33:27.618)
Yeah, not outside my head, inside my head. And one of my favorite stories from my Reiki is I was doing a lady and she was quite emotional and she was crying at certain points on the body. And that's not unusual when you do Reiki to clients because it moves the energy and blocks the emotions. People do cry. It's not a bad thing. I always think my Reiki is working a bit harder if people are showing emotions. And then at the end I was...

As she was crying, I heard somebody say, bottomless pit. And to me, a bottomless pit is when you eat a lot and you got a good appetite. So my mum would go, she's a bottomless pit, that girl. So that's how I took it. And then at the end of the break of session, I was reading through my notes and I said, and I heard somebody say to me, bottomless pit. And as I...

As I said it, she gasped and I was like, it means something to you then. And she said, yeah, when I was crying, I felt like I was falling down a bottomless pit. I really like this story because it just shows how context isn't given to us as a healer. is just, you get what you get. It's not for you, it's for the client. How amazing that I had these words and she had these words too because she was experiencing something.

Megan Hamilton (34:46.324)
Mm-hmm.

Swailes (34:52.846)
And because I didn't have that context, I got it wrong. And that just, to me, it proves that I'm not one, talking bollocks, and two, that I can actually do this. It's amazing, is that. And that's one of my favourite stories of when people go, well, how does it work? What do mean? You get messages. That is a good example.

Megan Hamilton (35:13.941)
Yes. Okay. Yes. And it is a practice and a cultivation, right? To trust that what you experience because, you know, it is valid and worth seeing. I mean, that happens to me when I'm reading tarot sometimes where something will come up and I'm like, in my head, I'm like,

Swailes (35:26.635)
Yes.

Megan Hamilton (35:39.433)
really stupid. Why would I say that? And I'm like, okay, I don't know why, but this won't leave me. I feel like I need to say this. And the person's like, that means this. And I'm like, okay, well that I had nothing to do with that. It just had to come out. But I also really appreciate you saying that because one of the things that I think is so important for folks who are dealing with, you know, unprovable, let's just say for fun,

Swailes (35:44.13)
Yeah.

Megan Hamilton (36:09.739)
energy work with other people or, you know, mediumship and the rest of it is we have to remember. And I think there's a huge onus on the person practicing to remember that it's coming through the filter of your brain and your lived experience. And, and, you know, so for you, you thought that the bottomless pit meant this.

And for her, it wasn't that at all. was something else. And sometimes I think what can happen is practitioners forget that their interpretation might not be right. The stimulus that they got is the right thing. But the interpretation is not necessary. It's your interpretation as it's like flowed through all of the different

energies that exist within you and your history and everything. And I feel I actually feel and I'm assuming that you might feel this too, like a huge responsibility to be as detached and clear about what the thing was without my own like bent on it. Do know what I mean?

Swailes (37:30.583)
Yeah, massively. And there's a responsibility there to your client, to yourself, but also to the team who's working with you, know, like whatever you want to call them, spirit guides or them upstairs or, I mean, when I question stuff, when I go, I don't know if that's me or they kind of get cross with me because they're like, dude, we're here working with you. Stop questioning it. Just write it in the damn book, yeah?

Megan Hamilton (37:40.72)
Mm-hmm, right. Yeah.

Swailes (37:57.579)
And so I don't do that anymore. When I began, I did it all the time and I probably lost loads of messages or information I should have passed on. And I'm getting to a point now where I can actually tell if it's me, you know, because I can find evidence why I'm thinking this or well that film, you know, them flowers are bought, that crystal. But when it's just random and I've no idea what it's about, absolutely no doubt about it is a message from for the client.

Megan Hamilton (38:18.955)
Yeah.

Megan Hamilton (38:26.603)
Yeah, yeah, I love it. And I always love when that happens too, because you just it feels important. Like, like that's a moment that needs to be taken, given some weight. Yeah. So talk to me about sigils then how did you how have you come to love them? How do you make them? What do do with them?

Swailes (38:52.558)
Sigils, one of my favourite topics. So I, as I said, I joined a moon circle with some mothers in a nearby city, which is a bit of an hour and a half drive for me. So it was, it was something that I did for me and I would have way, it was going to cost me petrol because everybody else was local, but it was worth it. Driving home after was sucked, but hey. And this one evening, the host had prepared a bread dough.

and asked us to create a sigil. And now bearing in mind, I had no idea what that was. I didn't know what even the word meant. So I was explained like, this is kind of like a custom rune. You realize it is what you want it to do, like your desire or your aim or your goal. And then you intuitively create a shape, a mark, a symbol. And for that moon circle, we were drawn.

drawing the sigil on the bread, on the dough, and then put it in the oven. And then afterwards, part of the ceremony was to like eat the sigil. And I thought that was just incredible, the fact that I've come up with this thing that's original and very magic. And then I have watched it be baked and now we're all eating it together. So that probably was my first ever experience of, you know, working with the love of witches in a circle doing sigil magic.

Megan Hamilton (40:00.235)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Swailes (40:19.128)
doing any magic really. And my sigil was growth and it came so easily and it kind of looks like a little person with a G and a H and like a little spot. And this sigil means the absolute world to me and I've got it tattooed on my arm and I have it in my wallet and I have it on my altar and it's one that I'll carry with me like forever and it'll never stop working because you can never stop growing like into like...

Megan Hamilton (40:45.962)
Hmm?

Swailes (40:46.368)
intellectually, with your understanding, with your witchcraft and your magic and your books, reading. And so I did grow for them. My second mum was self-worth. So I've got that one tied on me as well, which also can never get enough self-worth. The way I do them is I write down a sentence as to what it is I want, and then I do the whole taking out certain letters.

Megan Hamilton (40:56.959)
Hmmmm

Swailes (41:13.77)
not vowels or consonants, just anything that I'm not sure about and kind of drawing them together. And then I'll go into this weird kind of, I don't want to say trance, but like this calm moment where I'm looking at the page and I'm twisting it around and I'm using mirrors and I've got a candle and something nice burning smell-wise. And then it gets a life of its own. It's incredible. And it becomes something that is nothing.

all like the words or the letters and I'll go through a selection of little alternative ones that have progressed and then all of a sudden it'll be like that's it that's the one put a circle around it but it doesn't end there I mean I've got to physically work with it so it's kind of like a week really I have to get a circle together in a solitary circle

I use bells a lot, ringing bells over the sigil. And then I'll put it on the altar every day and talk to it and ask it to do a certain thing. Or imagine it glowing when you ring a bell or putting it in a jar and shaking it or putting it in an envelope with herbs, all kinds of things. And this is my most successful magic, I believe. This is the magic that makes me, I get paid for. Like clients come and buy sigils from me.

Megan Hamilton (42:38.315)
Hmm?

Swailes (42:38.894)
And so that helps, because I've also got evidence like these sigils have worked. It's usually things like selling houses, passing exams, protecting a family I had once. The last one I did was actually for selling a house and the woman who paid me for it. I could tell she wasn't quite sold on the idea, do you know, like when you do one and then a bit like, okay, let's, okay, let's give it a try. And I'm going to just have faith in it. Honestly, it will work because I felt it work. I felt the magic.

Megan Hamilton (43:04.201)
Yeah.

Swailes (43:09.314)
But she was a bit impatient. She was in the inbox going, it's still not worked. It's been a week, nothing's happened. And I'm like, you've got to just chill and just be patient. She's like, I want that house there. And then she didn't get the house. Unfortunately, it sold and she was so cross. She was so cross. And I was a bit like, it's weird because it feels like there's a barrier. you know? Maybe that's not the house. And she was like, it is the house. OK, I'm just saying there's a reason. OK.

Megan Hamilton (43:19.778)
huh.

Swailes (43:37.41)
And then maybe a month later, she were like, I found my dream house. my God, it wasn't that house, it was this house. And I was like, there you go. That's how I knew it had worked, but it weren't quite right. So she moved. Made me laugh.

Megan Hamilton (43:48.927)
Yeah.

my gosh, she's well, and I mean, you know, she'll be back.

Swailes (43:57.123)
Hopefully, I just loved it. was like, don't start thinking the magic isn't working because it really is. I felt it.

Megan Hamilton (44:05.162)
that's so cool. I mean, I've I've I use sigil sometimes. I find it comes it comes and go like the different practices I enjoy. They tend to come and go. But I love I feel like I want to think about your sigils now. OK, so.

Swailes (44:25.422)
Yeah.

Megan Hamilton (44:32.363)
We're not skirting around the fact that things right now are very upsetting, difficult, dark. There's a lot of terrible things happening. There's a lot of people doing terrible, terrible, terrible things. one of the things that I think, you know, with

with most magic practices has to be both and right. There's always there's black and white. And so I believe that hopefulness is what stops us from sinking into the depths. The idea that things can change the idea that we will still fight that will go like we'll do what's necessary to make things right to stand up for the especially the people who are suffering the most.

and to make change. And it's only because I can see and visualize and truly feel that this is possible that we keep going. And so I'm wondering, you know, what are some of your go-to rituals or spells for staying grounded and hopeful in this swirling chaos of

Doom.

Swailes (45:59.455)
It's chaos of doom. It is, yeah. I would say be very protective over your energy. Like my boundaries are so strong now and I have lost friendships and removed myself from historic relationships that no longer serve. But another part of that is having good boundaries and don't beat yourself up because you know, you could have been kinder. Like you are kind.

Megan Hamilton (46:01.003)
That's hopeful, isn't it?

Swailes (46:28.876)
and it didn't work and that's all right, you can walk away. So I'm very much about listening to yourself and also the news and stuff is so toxic at the moment and I choose to not watch news because before I was a witch I used to have BBC news on over breakfast and all day just pound myself with this horrible dark news. You need to hear it once perhaps and that's it. You don't need to hear it every single day.

Megan Hamilton (46:55.539)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Swailes (46:58.254)
And me and my partner have made a conscious decision not to let our kids hear the news. So like when we're in the car, when the news comes on, we turn it off because we're not going to, we're not going to lay that on them. They do not need, they do not deserve. And I'm aware that is quite, what's the word, you know, when you can do something because, what is it now? This is a podcasters nightmare. You know, God, I can't think of the word.

Megan Hamilton (47:28.606)
It's okay.

Swailes (47:29.784)
You know, like a white cis woman has more of it. Privilege! There you go. Like, I know I've got privilege and I can do that. I can take myself away. And I thank my lucky stars, I really do. It's OK to, you know, like, come out of it a little bit. Not being ignorant, because you can't unknow what you know, but it also gives space to other people, like on my platform, I'm very into resharing stuff.

Megan Hamilton (47:33.462)
privilege.

Swailes (47:58.991)
from the ground where people are suffering and I lose followers for it because they're like, I don't want to hear, I want to hear like the joyful stuff. And it's like, can't like, as somebody with, yeah, with this, like me and you have this platform and it is really irresponsible and quite selfish to not acknowledge anything. And the fact that people don't acknowledge anything ever, it makes me go like, that is unhinged. What? I can't live that way. So it is a balance. It's a fine balance. And of course, witchcraft.

Megan Hamilton (48:05.269)
Same. Yeah, no, it's not. It's both and.

Swailes (48:29.038)
teaches us balance because we need day and night. We need that in the light. So because exactly there's the card. So that's another good thing about witchcraft with all the rest of the incredible good things. Now I am strong enough as an individual to talk about it. I mean, sometimes I worry that I don't know enough because I'm not there. I have bias, of course I do and I have privilege.

And if people call me out, I mustn't go off and be the victim and be like, shit, no, no, I've got to just suck it up and be like, okay, I'll do better. And I think that's a massive turning point in any kind of person's life, whether you're a witch or not, there is a moment like cultural pulpation really got to me when I first discovered it. I was a bit like, I am absolute disgrace to the world because I didn't know and I know now. So I've stopped.

Megan Hamilton (49:22.25)
Yeah.

Swailes (49:22.85)
doing a lot of things because I know, I mean, that's the right kind of worm. So we're not going into that, but you know, no better do better. That is the quote.

Megan Hamilton (49:29.781)
That's it. That's all we can do and accept people when they change. Right?

Swailes (49:36.428)
And be wrong, be wrong publicly. And don't be ashamed that you're wrong, just be like, okay, I get it, I move on. think, especially in Britain, we're a bit like, I'm not wrong. I'm not wrong ever, and that sucks. You can be wrong, you can change your mind and you can learn, and we totally should, we totally should.

Megan Hamilton (49:58.463)
Yeah, it is. It's the growth. It's your sigil, right? It's the... Once we learn better, as you say, once we know better, we change, like you have to. And I feel like spirituality kind of...

Swailes (50:02.219)
It is indeed, yep.

Megan Hamilton (50:22.303)
brought that to the forefront more quickly or sort of more like strongly for me.

If you want to practice certain things and you want to live your life a certain way, there's a personal responsibility as well as a communal responsibility to keep growing and to get past your own ego response of whatever.

embarrassment you feel for being wrong or whatever. Yep. Highly agree. Listen, I'm so glad that we got a chance to have this conversation. It's been really, really nice. And I really appreciate because it's much later where you are. Yeah. Yeah. It's so fun. It's so fun. It's really nice to have had this conversation and everybody.

Swailes (51:05.666)
This is when I podcast though, so you're right.

Megan Hamilton (51:17.723)
make sure that you are subscribed to the Bellwitch podcast because it's if you like this podcast, you're going to love the Bellwitch podcast. It's so interesting. You have so many fun guests and you talk about so many different things. So thank you for being here, Swales.

Swailes (51:37.006)
It's been great. It's only taken me three years to get confident enough to go on other people's podcasts and other witchy podcasts is an extra layer of confidence because of course we have a shared topic. And my ego goes, I don't want to look like I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm over that now.

Megan Hamilton (51:50.667)
Hmm?

Megan Hamilton (51:54.443)
That's so funny. Because I was like, Swales know so much more than me. What am I going to even ask her? Anyways, I love it. I love it. Okay, so you can find all of the information and takeaways from today's episode in the show notes or at embracing enchantment.com. Subscribe and follow wherever you get your podcasts and don't forget to leave a review or a voice note.

Swailes (52:00.769)
No!

Ha

Megan Hamilton (52:18.901)
You can find out more about Swales and where to follow her in the show notes or at embracingenchantment.com. Make sure you're subscribed because we have some exciting episodes coming up with witchy authors, disruptors, morterra readings, and so much more. Until then, here's to building an enchanted life. Thank you, Swales.

Swailes (52:40.399)
Thank you.