Tyffanie Morgan and Rowena Whey: Halloween Drag Queens

Megan Hamilton (00:01)
I'm Megan Hamilton and this is the Embracing Enchantment podcast. Today we are going to talk with two incredible folks. are community leaders, style icons, extreme divas. These queens are trailblazers. One is Canada's first podcasting drag queen and the other is the first drag queen to be featured in the LCBO, which for those who don't know is Ontario's liquor store.

Please welcome the magical Tyffanie Morgan and Rowena Whey. Hi, how are you both doing?

Rowena & Tyffanie (00:34)
Hi. Hello, sweet peas. Hello. ⁓ Doing

very lovely. I love getting introduced. It's one of my favorite things. Yes. And I'm Tyffanie Morgan. You're Rowena Whey. Yes. Yes.

Megan Hamilton (00:44)
It is fun.

For those

who are, ⁓ I guess if you're listening, then that helps too. But you can also as you know, I like to remind folks we do have a YouTube channel so you can go anytime and you really should because you probably need to go and see what everybody's wearing. ⁓ Yes, it is. It is so incredible. And I was going to get mine out and then. I just forgot.

Rowena & Tyffanie (01:05)
You definitely need to see Tyffanie's hat.

You're like, I have an appointment. no, I have to go. And Rowena is actually ⁓ dressed demurely. am.

Megan Hamilton (01:17)
It's in the basement. So that's...

I know, you have like, do you

have like a silk kimono on or something? What's going on?

Rowena & Tyffanie (01:29)
No, it's like a bomber jacket, but it's ⁓ just floral and very pastel, and it matches my semi-pastel shirt underneath. I usually, I'm known for not wearing much clothing, so apparently I'm very demure today.

Megan Hamilton (01:40)
beautiful. I love it.

I do know that about you.

I think I've seen you with ⁓ more, I've seen more of your skin than I have you with actual legit clothing on probably.

Rowena & Tyffanie (01:58)
That's very fair. That's very fair. And

makeup too. This is just jabs. Jabs, jabs, jabs.

Megan Hamilton (02:02)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

I'm jabbing you psychically from over here. Okay, ⁓ We'll see. We'll see. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to keep it as clean as possible, but you both do not need to. Okay. So what we do with this podcast is I'm going to shuffle the cards and as I'm shuffling, I'm going to ask you both a question. And this is, you know, a pretty basic one, but how did each of you get into drag? And my other question.

Rowena & Tyffanie (02:12)
That's what that feeling in my brain is.

Megan Hamilton (02:38)
Because Kingston is not my hometown. Has there always been a drag scene here?

Rowena & Tyffanie (02:45)
Well, I guess I will start because Tyffanie can answer the second question better than I can. So I'll give it a go. ⁓ How did I get into drag? I was in Edmonton, Alberta when I started doing drag of all places, given how conservative that province is. ⁓ And I was doing my masters and I've always been an entertainer, but I had been kind of without art.

Megan Hamilton (03:01)
Wow. Mm-hmm.

Rowena & Tyffanie (03:15)
for like eight years of my life and really feeling it. And I went to a drag show and I was like, this seems like something I could do. Like I already do like Rocky Horror makeup and all that stuff every year. And I was like, I can try drag. Let's try learning a new art. Let's try learning a new performance style. And...

Megan Hamilton (03:28)
There you go.

Rowena & Tyffanie (03:37)
let's try something that seems like I can bring all of the things that I already love into in addition to learning more things. So I kind of just started ⁓ on a whim and on a dare ⁓ for the timing because a friend was like, ⁓ should be ⁓ slutty Snow White for Halloween. And I was like, deal, I'll do it.

Megan Hamilton (03:55)
my God. Amazing.

How could you say no to that?

Rowena & Tyffanie (03:59)
Right?

Yeah. And I guess to answer the question, has there always been drag here in Kingston? ⁓ I'll say yes. For as long as you know. For as long as I know. It's interesting. Actually, someone did a

some histories, some background ⁓ looking into it. And there have been like vaudeville drag performers who have been through town. And there was also questions about a lot of big gay underground here at some point, especially even during the world wars when there was people stationed here and stuff. ⁓ But for me, it kind of stemmed ⁓ from Jazz Morgan. So Jazz Morgan. So this is maybe going back really long.

Megan Hamilton (04:38)
Wait.

Rowena & Tyffanie (04:47)
time ago pre YouTube before people be how how did you learn to be a drag queen and and it was YouTube YouTube that one but for me it was I got a drag mentor so Jazz Morgan she was doing drag here and she started doing drag with a group of drag artists here in the like the late 80s ⁓ as a way to fundraise for HIV AIDS in town here was known as the Kingston AIDS project back then it's now called trellis

Megan Hamilton (04:54)
Hehehehehe

Rowena & Tyffanie (05:16)
And just also just having a good old time too. It's all about lots of fun. So jazz took me in one day. We got dressed up in a borrowed wig, a borrowed dress, borrowed pair of shoes. And then Tyffanie Morgan was born one day. So yeah. That's She was born in a basement.

Megan Hamilton (05:37)
I love it. She was

born in a basement just like just like all incredibly magical humans. So how long then Tyffanie have you been doing drag?

Rowena & Tyffanie (05:41)
It was an apartment. It was the floor of an apartment behind the gay bar. I'm sure that floor had seen a lot, but anyway. ⁓

This is my silver jubilee year, so it's been 25 years of drag. Yeah. She has been doing drag longer than some of the drag performers in Kingston have been alive.

Megan Hamilton (06:07)
That's incredible!

That is, is that depressing? No, just kidding.

Rowena & Tyffanie (06:19)
Depressing when you find out that there's no pension or benefits. I thought we should support the arts more in this town. You do know that you can apply to be a part of a pension fund or a benefit fund. No matter what job you are, you can do an independent pension or benefits fund. good to know. So you could do that now. Do that now before I'm denied in a year.

Megan Hamilton (06:22)
Right.

You know what? I think we all need to write our prime minister immediately. Yeah.

You can, it's true.

And we should get let's make a workshop about it to teach everybody, because that's actually I know we're kidding, but that's actually an incredible idea. All right. So I'm going to pull a card and Tyffanie has already said that she wants Major Arcana. So let's see. She's looking for some changes, I guess. What are we going to pull today?

Rowena & Tyffanie (06:47)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.

She wants major arcana.

Megan Hamilton (07:10)
I'm sorry.

four of pentacles. So, you know, this is sometimes this is one of those ones you're like, although you know what? You know what?

Rowena & Tyffanie (07:24)
Between the two of us that makes sense.

Megan Hamilton (07:28)
We were just talking about money and saving money and preparing maybe, you know, what is what kind of jobs have benefits and what kind of jobs don't. And when you get the four of pentacles, so again, I'm using the Rider Wade Smith deck. And if you want to head over to YouTube and see what it looks like, this is, I call this one the Jimi Hendrix card. And so you've got, cause he looks like Jimi Hendrix, obviously.

He has a pentacle on the crown of his head. He has a pentacle over his heart and at the ⁓ bottoms of his feet, which is where, you know, if you're doing any kind of energy work, those are some of the major centers that you allow energy in to flow through you. And so sometimes with this card, we think that he's kind of blocking himself. He's holding onto his money so tight, right? Pentacles are in the realm of earth and we associate them often with career and money.

and behavior and our human bodies. And I like to associate them with the magic of aliveness, but he's holding them so tight. And so this is going to get off, you know, off the path a little bit. But one thing we know about pentacles is when we turn them upside down, the pentacle reversed is the symbol of the devil, which is also a symbol we associate with addiction. And so because he has his arms around the pentacle in this way,

If he were to unfold his arms, then we would have the pentacle reversed, which could mean again, the things we're chained to, the things we feel like we can't control, the things that, you know, control us or keep us stuck, i.e. like a devil card, which, you know, has the chains around the two people. And so much of the time we do feel and are controlled by money.

our ability to keep it, our ability to ⁓ earn it, right? So where can you start to, and this is like a mindset shift and you know, ⁓ we don't mindset shift our way out of everything. However, every once in a while we can think to ourselves, okay, I don't have enough money right now.

terrible situation to be in. Most of us are in that most of the time. However, what else is available to me in terms of resources? What if I look at the pentacles in terms of resources? So that could be relationships that could be ⁓ a fully stocked cupboard. I may not have enough money to go and do this vacation that I want to do or and I'm you know, I'm talking I'm not talking about basic necessities. I'm talking about stuff beyond that.

But where am I well resourced? What am I looking for from a vacation? And how could I get that feeling from being with my friends or going and doing something fun that doesn't have to be in Aruba? Not that we don't all want to be in Aruba. Maybe you both don't, but I would. I wouldn't say no.

Rowena & Tyffanie (10:40)
I think I'm

going to borrow some heat lamps from one of the local restaurants, put it above my bed and just lie on the floor and it'll feel like I'm sun tanning and it'll be beautiful. Hey, I've been to Aruba, it's lovely.

Megan Hamilton (10:56)
Maybe you could go over to Rowena's house and bask in the sunshine as well.

Rowena & Tyffanie (11:00)
I'll show some slide decks. Yeah.

I'll show some slide decks while you're sitting under the heat. We'll put a big TV screen so that we can see the pictures of Aruba while we sit under the heat lamp. I'll also re-interact how you would in Aruba. Hey, did you want to buy a timeshare? my gosh. And can you like spritz me with just like one of those little like squirt guns and so it just missed the air like the spray of the ocean. Put some salt water in it. Yeah.

Megan Hamilton (11:10)
There you go.

Yeah, exactly.

It is the easiest way to solve all of your problems all at once.

⁓ all right. So moving on from that.

Rowena & Tyffanie (11:37)
Well, sorry

to make, we always try to make it a little bit of a laugh at the end. that was, yeah, that was kind of really insightful. It was, it was very insightful. got me thinking too, because I was like, what was my question? Am I allowed to chat about my question? But yeah, because 25 years drag, you suddenly are like, okay, what's next?

Megan Hamilton (11:52)
Please.

Rowena & Tyffanie (12:02)
What's next? Well, 25 more years. 25 more years. Yeah. Which is scary.

Megan Hamilton (12:05)
Yeah.

That's what.

Well, listen, if anyone can do it, it's you. There is absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind, that's for sure. But please do keep it light and make it funny because that is exactly what we love about going to drag shows. They are fun. They are opportunities to just be caught up in the moment and enjoy people absolutely loving what they're doing and feeling fully themselves as they express themselves with art as

Rowena was saying earlier, because if you are artistically inclined and you have gone through a period where you haven't been able to express yourself, it really, really sucks.

Rowena & Tyffanie (12:51)
Oh, it does. Yeah, it does. It feels like a part of you is absolutely missing and you have this dearth of emotional intelligence during that period because so much of art is expressing your emotions and how you're how you're feeling and it's how you deal with the day to day life and

Megan Hamilton (12:56)
Mm-hmm.

Rowena & Tyffanie (13:13)
It's very strange to not have that. It is strange. Like we talk about how we're booked and blessed all of like we're doing pretty good though. But I do remember at lean times when we lost the gay bar before RuPaul's Drag Race and all that kind of stuff. And then suddenly it's like, OK, so I'm doing shows in people's living rooms or whatever, ⁓ maybe four times a year or something like that. and that was a struggle. But I still wanted to do it because.

Yeah. You know, we are artists. The way I described it to someone before, they're like, you're a thespian. You're just like any actor or something like that. There is this draw that need to be able to connect to the audience. And there's some sort of energy exchange or something going on there that. Yeah. Yeah.

Megan Hamilton (14:00)
yeah, absolutely.

⁓ Okay, so speaking of ⁓ RuPaul and famous drag artists, Jinx Monsoon is a witch, right? She's a witch.

Rowena & Tyffanie (14:11)
She is, yeah. She's a witch? I had no idea.

I had no idea. All these years, she's a witch? Did you know? you're being facetious. Okay, good. ⁓

Megan Hamilton (14:17)
Really? ⁓ wait.

I know I was like,

wait a minute, how did you not know? ⁓ And in Kingston we have...

Rowena & Tyffanie (14:24)
I think it's on every YouTube video that she has. She's like,

yeah, by the way, did you know I'm a witch?

Megan Hamilton (14:31)
It's

true. Yeah. If you've ever seen her, she has told you. ⁓ And in Kingston, it's like speaking of vegans, actually, this is a great segue to say that our very own Casey Boyce from Shiva's Delight is sponsoring today's episode. And we love her. Thank you so much. OK, so in Kingston, we have drag artist Bewitched and Tyffanie.

Rowena & Tyffanie (14:36)
It is like a vegan.

Yes we do.

Yes.

Megan Hamilton (15:00)
You've got the Kingston

Witch's Walk and the Witch Market and you're wearing a Witch's ⁓

Rowena & Tyffanie (15:07)
⁓

Is there a bit of a theme? Is a little witchy theme in the drag community here?

Megan Hamilton (15:13)
There's a bit of a theme, a little witchy theme. So can you tell

us about the witch's walk?

Rowena & Tyffanie (15:21)
Well, yes, this is going to be the third year that we're having the Kingston Witches Walk. So ⁓ the Kingston Witches Walk is just an opportunity for people to gather together, dress up, and do a little walk and fundraise for our local women's charity in town here. this year, our charity partner is going to be Kingston Interval House, which is awesome.

Megan Hamilton (15:44)
We love Kingston Interval

House.

Rowena & Tyffanie (15:46)
We love them too. The last two years it was Elizabeth Fry Society, which is a great charity as well. ⁓ But yeah, we partner with them, ⁓ fundraise a little bit of money, but also just having a really great time, gathering people together, dressing up. And this is the first year we're going to do a witch market. So it's this Saturday. It's just days away for me. ⁓ For you, it's probably in the past.

Megan Hamilton (15:53)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

you

Rowena & Tyffanie (16:15)
If I'm alive after that, I don't know, but. Is podcasting like time travel? It Sometimes it is. is, is, yeah. Um, so yeah.

Megan Hamilton (16:21)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's magic.

Rowena & Tyffanie (16:24)
Yeah, but as for like witchiness or something like that in the drag queen, I don't know. I've always been drawn to, I've always been drawn to like Halloween time and stuff like that. But I think that's also true for most drag though too. I am a Halloween queen as they say. So there are two types of drag queens. ⁓ I don't know if the rule still applies to drag kings, because I think that they tend to get their start in strange ways.

⁓ But in drag queen world you are either a pride queen or you are a Halloween queen for when you kind of get your start and thrown into the drag world and my drag birthday is October 31st so Halloween is always a fun time for me although I don't identify as a witch I identify as a bitch

And I can certify that for you right now.

Megan Hamilton (17:25)
Do you identify as a witch, Tyffanie?

Rowena & Tyffanie (17:29)
I, no, no, I don't think so. I had, I had a dabble in the arts, you know, when you're in your teenage years, you know how it goes. You definitely put on, sometimes when you are, when you're putting on a character, you put on the character of a witch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, when it comes to no.

Megan Hamilton (17:32)
Mm-hmm.

I do know how it goes.

But you're not summoning demons at home like the rest

of us? No.

Rowena & Tyffanie (17:59)
No, no, no, no. ⁓ wait, what? I mean, there are green witches who just do a lot of agriculture and help the earth and tiff. Well, there's that too.

Megan Hamilton (18:03)
kidding.

Exactly. And that's why I'm like, okay,

so we've got Tyffanie who does the witches walk is now doing the witches ⁓ market is wearing a witch hat does a lot of stuff in the backyard. Hmm. Interesting. Maybe you're a witch and you don't even know it.

Rowena & Tyffanie (18:26)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓

Maybe. Maybe. ⁓ my gosh. Are you going to have your what is that? What is the witch equivalent to a gay awakening? Coming out of the broom closet. ⁓ a wiccan wakening. Wiccan wakening. Coming out of the broom closet. A wickening. The wickening. ⁓

Megan Hamilton (18:40)
⁓

Wiccan wakening a wickening. Oh my goodness.

Okay, so let's let's go into drag a little bit because for folks who may not be familiar with it and I don't even know how that could be possible at this time in our lives of 2025 but are there any rules around drag any rules around who's allowed to be a drag artist for example?

Rowena & Tyffanie (19:11)
I think the answer to that is no, because drag is all about breaking the rules. That is the whole point of drag. It is to tear down structures of patriarchy, of gender binaries, of expectations. is supposed to be defiant and underground and counterculture. Clap clap clap clap clap clap. ⁓

Megan Hamilton (19:13)
Yes.

which sounds

a lot like witchcraft to me. So I'm just saying.

Rowena & Tyffanie (19:45)
I mean, some of these transformations are definitely witchcraft.

Megan Hamilton (19:52)
Okay, so who's each of your favorite drag artists?

Yeah, I know.

Rowena & Tyffanie (19:59)
Rowena, go first. Who is my favorite drag? I can't pinpoint one down. Well, obviously Tyffanie Morgan. thank you. My favorite drag artist is... ⁓

Megan Hamilton (20:09)
Yeah, right. That's the correct answer.

Rowena & Tyffanie (20:17)
It really, changes depending on how I'm feeling and what I'm in the mood for, but I, my favorite type of drag performer is someone who does not take themselves seriously. So I really enjoy Jinx Monsoon and Bandela Creme ⁓ because they're really not afraid to...

Megan Hamilton (20:35)
Uh-huh.

Rowena & Tyffanie (20:39)
to poke fun at themselves, poke fun at other people. And for that reason, I really love people like Lady Bunny and Coco Peru, who are kind of like classic drag performers who don't take the art form seriously. They just kind of do what they wanna do and they have fun. ⁓ I think sometimes people like RuPaul take drag too seriously, even though she is kind of the one that we think of as like the queen of drag.

And kudos for saying classic Rowena and not old. Thank you for that. they're not that old, Wait, they're older than me.

Megan Hamilton (21:12)
you ⁓

He he.

Rowena & Tyffanie (21:19)
It's funny you should say that, because, yeah, RuPaul, I just saw some crazy video clips when she was young and stuff. And we all go through that little ugly duckling stage of our lives, you know? And then we find our vibe. We find our little When is yours going to end? Stop. Stop. Get out of my house. Get out of my house!

Megan Hamilton (21:37)
My goodness, my goodness.

But you know, interesting, like, ⁓ I think if we if we're thinking about who brought drag into the mainstream or at least, you know, kind of made it more visible, most people would think RuPaul. But RuPaul, but RuPaul would have had influences, right?

Rowena & Tyffanie (21:57)
100 % RuPaul.

⁓ 100%. So when RuPaul was starting, she's very much influenced by fashion world. ⁓ But she had fellow drag performers like Jackie Beat and Lady Bunny who were kind of doing the same, in the same world and crossing paths and doing similar things. I don't know, is RuPaul's inspiration? ⁓

Well, she was much in the art scene in New York of the 80s. Like, hello, that wellspring, that was insane. you know, club kids and everything just popping out all over the place. ⁓

Megan Hamilton (22:35)
Mm-hmm.

Rowena & Tyffanie (22:41)
And yeah, like, ⁓ and we, think we do have to give, give a huge note to RuPaul for breaking ⁓ the scene here in town. So I will say that like here in Kingston, Ontario, Canada, the home of Lines of my home to me, Miss Tyffanie Morgan, ⁓ was, drag was seen as just, just ⁓ an art form for the queer community, for the Ligibet Quas. And it was just, so,

I remember when I was doing drag, I'd be like, oh, hey, coworker, did come out to my drag show? And they're like, I'm allowed to? I don't know if I'm allowed to. And I'm like, no, you're allowed to. You can come. And it was during pandemic when suddenly Roopal Drag Race was on Netflix. And everyone was staying at home because they couldn't do anything when they're watching Netflix. And then suddenly...

People want to come see a Everybody and their aunt wants to see a drag show. And their grandmother too. Yep. They dragged their boyfriends out though.

And now, I do have to tip my hat to her for, it kind of broke that scene here. It was very kind of an underground kind of, ⁓ not because we wanted it that way, but it was, and now it's blossomed.

Megan Hamilton (24:03)
It's really blossomed. mean, you know, there's so much drag happening at any given point. There's drag shows out in the park at the ⁓ info visitor centers. There's drag ⁓ story time. There's drag, you know, at Skeleton Park. There's the witches walk. And, you know, what what is so fun about it is not only is it now letting people not have to ask that question of am I allowed to come?

It's creating ⁓ such a ⁓ beautiful connection between ⁓ community and ⁓ drag artists and giving everybody, because I mean, the drag scene here is bananas. There's so many different artists.

Rowena & Tyffanie (24:52)
We have a very diverse drag scene in Kingston. Kingston's not a small town, but for such a small queer community, we have a very large drag scene, ⁓ which is wonderful, which is wonderful. ⁓ And it means that we have so many opportunities to take in drag and enjoy it. Yeah. ⁓

Megan Hamilton (25:10)
Mm-hmm.

Exactly. Yes.

And learn about it and not have that sort of disconnect between there's this community's over here and this community's over here and this community's over here. Everybody can kind of ⁓ get to know each other a little bit better. So what about ⁓ what's the one in Canada called? Canada's... Yeah, right. ⁓

Rowena & Tyffanie (25:40)
Canada's Drag Race. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. The one in Canada? sure, that one. Yeah.

Megan Hamilton (25:47)
That one, that one.

Do you watch that one?

Rowena & Tyffanie (25:50)
That we definitely do. We definitely watch that one. Mostly in hopes that we'll see someone that we know and we can be like, I know her. I know her. I still love being able to see Isis Couture on camera and winning. I knew that lady before she was a lady.

Megan Hamilton (26:10)
You

Rowena & Tyffanie (26:14)
So it was a real blessing. yeah, we love watching it. It's really nice to see like...

It, ⁓ I'm kind of, I say it jokingly, but like, it's really nice to see people that we know getting their time to shine and getting to have all of that recognition that all these people down in the States are getting ⁓ for their drag. And I mean, maybe it's a smaller scale, but it's still, it's really nice to see. And if there is a drag race producer right now listening to this program, please, Rowena Way is ready and please take her, I will pay to have her on She'll pay for the,

Megan Hamilton (26:45)
Call you.

Rowena & Tyffanie (26:52)
pay for the train ticket and all the luggage shipment and even the hotel if you keep me for extra days. Just take her. Just take her away from me.

Megan Hamilton (27:01)
we would love nothing more. Trust me, not to get rid of you, but to have you go on and absolutely explode. ⁓

Rowena & Tyffanie (27:09)
⁓ I would like

it would be nice to represent Kingston not to leave Kingston. Thank you. Kingston would be very proud of you know having you. Yeah. Yeah. Well we'll get you something like Mayor's Arts Award or something. A piece of wood. You're 40 under 40. Wards much better. is. Yes. Sorry. Speaking of wood. I love this segue. Where are we going?

Megan Hamilton (27:14)
Great.

We'll get on it.

Speaking of wood…

⁓ Taylor Swift's

new record. just reminded me of, yeah. yeah. So does that mean that there's going to be all the drag shows now it's going to be Taylor Swift?

Rowena & Tyffanie (27:46)
It's really funny. ⁓ my gosh, we were just talking about this. So I was asked to perform at a Taylor Swift listening party. I was asked about a month ago and I was unavailable because we were already engaged with an event. And so the organizers asked me, they said, could you find another drag performer in order to host this event? And so I took about two weeks before replying because there are no Swifties in the drag scene in Kingston.

Megan Hamilton (28:16)
Really?

Rowena & Tyffanie (28:17)
I am really the only one who performs Taylor Swift and that's only because I know that my market is a lot of straight white women. So I like, I perform Taylor Swift, which is why they reached out to me, but no one else in the community really.

You know, we have heard of shows that are the entire drag show with like 10 drag artists. It's all Taylor Swift all night long. And they are just, you know, people are banging down the doors trying to get in. we tried to put one together like years ago. it was just like. one wanted to do it. And I hate to, I don't know none of her songs. You could probably do one or two. You could probably do one or two.

feel like we can get you some ballads and you can, yeah, you would know them. Alright, well maybe I need to learn myself a ballad, okay? Not that Redwood song, okay?

Megan Hamilton (29:04)
You'd know one or two for sure.

But I do feel like I saw something on the internet.

think somebody must have filled in the gap because I'm pretty sure I saw a drag Taylor Swift at a listening party maybe over the weekend.

Rowena & Tyffanie (29:20)
so Bewitched

ended up hosting the listening party that I was supposed to host. ⁓ Or well, I was never supposed to host it. looked good. She looked very good. acted very nicely. She always looks really good. She, in her words, she was an actress that evening.

Megan Hamilton (29:30)
She always looks very good.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Rowena & Tyffanie (29:41)
No, no, no.

It's her story. yeah, her story. It's her story to share. Yeah. ⁓

Megan Hamilton (29:45)
her story. We'll have to get her on

to talk about it. ⁓ Okay, so switching gears and you know, we've talked a lot about Kingston. Can you tell us a little bit more about your podcast? What's the Maple T?

Rowena & Tyffanie (29:59)
Yes, so what's the maple tea is also kind of...

born from the pandemic, ⁓ because what do you do when you're sitting at home, unable to chat with like your besties? You start a podcast and you talk about Canada's Drag Race, because that's how it started. And you turn to Miss Tyffanie Morgan, who has all the audio equipment just laying around and knows the technology. she ships you a microphone in the mail because she doesn't want to visit you in person, because that would be against the rules. That's against the rules, yeah. You are not in my bubble.

Megan Hamilton (30:29)
Exen, yeah, right.

Rowena & Tyffanie (30:33)
Did we do it remotely? We did do it remotely. Yeah, that's right.

Megan Hamilton (30:35)
Can you even believe that we-

Weren't you doing

it live on Instagram for a while?

Rowena & Tyffanie (30:43)
We still are actually. kind of like, so our podcast is a little unique in that when we record it, we are also airing. So everything is live and unedited and whatever we say just happens to go into the recording and that's what people hear.

Megan Hamilton (30:59)
goes in.

Rowena & Tyffanie (31:01)
It's a really cool opportunity, kind of like live radio, for people to message in and have their say and be a part of the discussion, whatever we happen to be talking about that day. And I've really enjoyed it for that reason. Although I really love talking to Tyffanie, I really like having all these other opinions come in and all these other comments. yeah. It's great when you're getting... So like we were saying before, know, drag is kind of an interactive kind of art form, you know? We're feeding...

Megan Hamilton (31:24)
Mm-hmm.

Rowena & Tyffanie (31:31)
off the audience, we're getting their vibes and stuff. and with the podcast is basically the same, but we need we need that in text format during our live broadcast. Yes, we're actually typing in there. But yeah, we call it our live broadcast podcast, the live broadcast podcast featuring me and also her sometimes.

Megan Hamilton (31:40)
you

So were you both in town? ⁓ Do you know that? Do you know Serene Fox who is a judge on? Yes. And did you know that she she gave a Tadak's talk here a couple of years ago? Yes. Yes. I don't know. I don't know. I keep I know it's so funny. I've been the speaker advisor there for a number of years and so I got to work with Serene, which was wonderful and

Rowena & Tyffanie (31:59)
Yes, I do know Serene Fox, yeah. Was she in town?

how did I miss that?

Megan Hamilton (32:22)
I think sometimes we just have to talk to the marketing team a little bit about getting word out a little more because it fills up because of the students but I think the greater Kingston area would probably be really interested to know some of the incredible people that we have coming to town to do talks.

Rowena & Tyffanie (32:25)
Yeah

I actually,

this is, I mean a little tangent, but I find that marketing is one of the biggest things nowadays that...

literally everyone struggles with because marketing is, if you want your marketing to be good, it has to be paid. ⁓ and then you also have to create it in a way now that is catchy in a few, few seconds, not even seconds, like half a second. has to catch someone's attention enough for them to actually engage with it. Whereas we used to really depend on things like email marketing and Facebook events and posters. And nowadays it really is like.

Can you make a reel? Can you make a tick-tock? Can you can you catch attention because otherwise you're not getting new people? You're only getting the people that have already engaged with you Well, and I would I'm not sure if the reels and the check talks are necessary the way but yeah, definitely finding ⁓ New audience members, know Where do you how do you reach out to them? I don't know if it is real like reels and I mean some of us sell ourselves like out in the streets in drag we just walk down the road and say

Megan Hamilton (33:43)
That's one way.

Rowena & Tyffanie (33:44)
like, there's a drag show, go! And that doesn't work for everyone though. Bar curse. Yes.

Megan Hamilton (33:47)
What are those called? Barkers? Is that that's the old school, right? You'd be hanging outside and calling people in. Yeah.

Rowena & Tyffanie (33:54)
Hey, it works

in Toronto. They do that in Toronto. Maybe we should be doing that.

Megan Hamilton (33:57)
It's true. I feel like in Kingston you

might get in some serious trouble, however. We're just not used to it.

Rowena & Tyffanie (34:01)
I don't know, I might just start walking

down Johnson and Brock in the student village and being like, Drag show, drag show.

Megan Hamilton (34:05)
Please do. Nothing

would be funner than that. I will say about marketing, ⁓ it used to be that you needed to catch people's attention six or seven times before they would be able to engage. And now, I can't remember the number, but it's like 36.

Rowena & Tyffanie (34:11)
you

Wow.

Megan Hamilton (34:30)
Our brains have been destroyed by our phones by the last six years by what's happening now. We just were walking around traumatized and with very low attention spans and deep need for dopamine every one second. So if you ever feel like you are too much on social media, you're probably actually not enough if you're trying to get

Rowena & Tyffanie (34:32)
Yes. Yep.

Megan Hamilton (34:57)
out there as much I know so never feel bad.

Rowena & Tyffanie (34:59)
That is

really good to know because sometimes I feel like when I post the same thing, like.

once a week, it feels like too much to me because I'm like, I don't want to see my post. like, no, like actually, though, I every month I have I have a recurring events I do. I do drag bingos in various places and I usually post it for three weeks. I post it like once a week for three weeks leading up to it and then the day of the event. And I feel like that's a lot because I personally don't want to see my own advertisement four times, let alone more than once.

Megan Hamilton (35:29)
Mm-hmm. It's not.

Rowena & Tyffanie (35:36)
Like but I'm also the type of person who sees it. Yeah. Yeah, but I'm also the type of person who sees something and immediately immediately buys a ticket. What I am this person I am that person if I see something and I'm like that sounds fun. I Immediately buy a ticket

Megan Hamilton (35:37)
but you are not marketing to yourself.

Really? I know.

certainly done that before but I have also dog eared or bookmarked several different things and then all of a sudden I go back and I look and I'm like oh whoops that was last year maybe it's time to close this tab

Rowena & Tyffanie (36:11)
you

You are my kindred spirit. I'm like my Amazon like, like you like put into cart and then suddenly you're like, price has changed because there's no more of these items available. I'm like, wait, how long has that been sitting there for? Oh my God, is that why you missed my wedding? No. I'm not married. That was a to go.

Megan Hamilton (36:18)
You ⁓

It's from eight years ago.

Oh, so

you both were recently in a really cool art event called Patterns for All Bodies, right? I know just I can be a friend of mine. can you tell us and also speaking of I would have 100 % been there, but I saw it on Monday. I saw the pictures and I was like, how did I not know about this?

Rowena & Tyffanie (36:49)
Yes.

Megan Hamilton (37:05)
There you go. That's marketing. You're probably like, I was posting about it for whatever reason I didn't see it, but ⁓ it's such a cool.

Rowena & Tyffanie (37:06)
Again, like marketing. Marketing,

It even visit drag shows.

Megan Hamilton (37:18)
It's such a cool event and this is the second year in a row. And can you tell us a bit about it? Because isn't it, they go back and look at old dresses, right? And then they form new patterns for them. And then they dress you both up in them.

Rowena & Tyffanie (37:31)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, that's exactly right.

So they take, go ahead. They bring in historical, like, historical.

Megan Hamilton (37:39)
And, mm-hmm, no you go.

Rowena & Tyffanie (37:49)
historians, brain stopped working for a moment. They bring in historians who work with historical dresses and historical garments and they create new patterns from historical outfits and then they create those patterns in such a way that they can be modified so that they will fit not just like when you pick up a pattern from a store, although people don't really do that anymore, it's not just like four to eight, it's a pattern with

on how to modify it for any body. So if you need to adjust the waist, if you need to adjust the chest or the shoulders or whatever needs to change, those instructions are there so that you can take that historical outfit and anybody can wear it.

Yeah, it is. So we got so this is the second year that we've been doing it. This is our second gown outfit in the first year because they are going through a reconstruction of the of the gallery. We were actually able to see some of their historical garments that they have in the collection. And oh, my gosh, like they have a lot of historical garments in the Agnes Hatterington collection. They're gorgeous. They are gorgeous. Yes.

What I loved about it is the historians, sorry, ⁓ conservators. The conservators know how to conserve it and how to protect it and stuff. And then talking to the people who actually know how these are constructed, it's just like, things are just vibing. And then coming to us and you're like, okay, make this but drag. ⁓ And that just kind of, it's just vibes, it just vibes. And there's this huge long process of us

Megan Hamilton (39:29)
So fun.

Rowena & Tyffanie (39:35)
you know choosing the the garments that we want to do a remake I should say and the fabrics and how we're going to present it and then all culminates in how we style it how we perform it because I Accessorize it it really is it's a it's a wonderful proof of concept Like how else do you take an outfit? That's meant for I mean most of our outfits that we've worked with are from the 1800s the the body side

of people in

Megan Hamilton (40:06)
Yes.

Rowena & Tyffanie (40:06)
the 1800s compared to I'm a six foot one man. ⁓ I would not fit, these outfits literally fit someone who's like five four ⁓ and then how do you change that? How do you modify that? And in some cases... ⁓

Megan Hamilton (40:08)
Very tiny.

Mm-hmm.

Rowena & Tyffanie (40:25)
in Daredevil FM's case, the outfit that they chose was a dress and then they redesigned it to actually be pants and a skirt in order to be masculine, feminine and...

You can take it and work it in so many different ways. Yeah. Yeah. And they're just just magical creatures and stuff. These these outfits. ⁓ And also going back into theater, too, because some of these were likely donated from ⁓ theater in town here from the Queen's University Theater program. And they might have been used for on stages with maybe some dressed as girls or something like that. I'm just, you know, you know,

Megan Hamilton (40:58)
Hmm.

Rowena & Tyffanie (41:08)
For like years decades maybe ⁓ and then they ended up in the collection. So If they could talk

Megan Hamilton (41:11)
Huh?

I

you know, I went to theater school and one of the first things we talked about was the fact that ⁓ there were no women actors, you know, back in the days of Elizabethan theater. Everything was quote unquote drag in terms of ⁓ all of the characters were played by men. And then somewhere along the lines, probably the Victorian era,

that kind of a thing started to be ⁓ frowned upon or you know would lose its sparkle and then you know people were finding their ways in underground ways or counterculture as Rowena was saying and then now we have this kind of resurgence in the middle of

this other stuff that's seeming to be on the rise as well. you know, I think what's ⁓

I think what's really amazing about it is that folks are not backing down, There's not, ⁓ it's not, know, people are not getting scared. Well, sorry, let me just rephrase that because that's not true. But the fear is not the same as saying, as being, as going back.

you know, into the smaller spaces or like, and certainly Kingston's a little bit different. But what I love now is that we do have this understanding, at least in the mainstream culture of the importance of drag, of how fun it is, of how, you know, when you talk to people about who they'd rather meet in the forest,

Rowena & Tyffanie (43:04)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's true.

Megan Hamilton (43:07)
who they'd

rather have their kids be read stories to.

Rowena & Tyffanie (43:11)
Mm-hmm.

Megan Hamilton (43:13)
⁓ and so with all of that in mind and with the world and the state that it is, and it doesn't necessarily mean, ⁓ and I know that, and you all can make as many jokes as you want. You can handle this question as much as you would like to, but what keeps you grounded and hopeful right now?

Rowena & Tyffanie (43:36)
I, for me, it is the knowledge that, I mean, it's kind of hard to say this because I also know that other people think the exact same, but to know that what we're doing is right and the other side of the argument would say the exact same thing. They'd say, well, what we're doing is right, but.

To know that all drag is teaching is that everybody is valid, everybody is accepted, ⁓ everybody should be allowed to present themselves as who they are, who they want to be, and be loved for that. Like, I feel like that's what makes sense. Like, anything outside of that means that you are...

introducing hate, are introducing discrimination, you're introducing subjugation, and it's... it doesn't make sense. I don't know why people would want that, except to make other people feel less, and that can't be right.

Megan Hamilton (44:43)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Rowena & Tyffanie (44:50)
I take a little bit of a kind of...

I guess kind of Hinduist sort of like viewpoint that that it's just all cycles. It's just all cycles. We're going through a little bad cycle right now. It's a little bump of the road. But but things are going to I think things will turn out better at the end. It may be maybe a lot different than what it is now, too. You know. Yeah. And plus, I mean, clearly we we have to think positively. We have to think positively because in I mean,

Megan Hamilton (45:03)
Hmm.

Rowena & Tyffanie (45:26)
not me personally, but the queer community has been through so much in the last 100 years, 50 years, 20 years, 10 years, five years, and we just keep going through it because for some reason people aren't willing to accept that we have a right to exist.

Megan Hamilton (45:33)
Forever. Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Rowena & Tyffanie (45:45)
And so like you have to make a joke out of it. And drag is the biggest joke that you can make out of it. It's like, how else do you get to take these? Like to know that someone hates you just for being in existence, like I'm going to make my existence even bigger just to spite you. ⁓

Megan Hamilton (46:03)
Yeah. Yes.

Love it.

Rowena & Tyffanie (46:06)
And

drag, you know, I remember some drag artists saying that their drag is their armor. And that Stellato shoe can be used for more than one thing. yes. ⁓ You know, when I was performing at Club 477, which was the local gay bar here ⁓ in early 2000s and stuff, you know, you would have some hooligans try to...

Megan Hamilton (46:14)
Hmm.

That's true.

Rowena & Tyffanie (46:35)
do something, you know, sort of thing. And ⁓ I knew a couple of the drag artists who are like, hold my wig. ⁓ Yeah. Hold my wig. Yeah. And having a man in a dress chase after you, that can be scary. That can be scary. I can understand that, conservatives. I can understand that a man in dress can be scary. But it's mostly because they're chasing after you, because you've done something bad.

Megan Hamilton (46:43)
You

Rowena & Tyffanie (47:02)
I think that we just have to be like, there's a saying like you're, you're out loud and proud. And like, I honestly think the more that people try to push us back into being small and quiet and in, those boxes where they don't have to see us, the more we should just be out loud and proud because at some point they're going to get used to having us around.

Megan Hamilton (47:26)
Hell yeah. Mm-hmm.

Rowena & Tyffanie (47:26)
That's it. Yeah.

I do worry that maybe a bit of my privilege though at my age now that because I don't I don't know how else to live other than authentically myself. I don't know how I don't know how else anymore. And that's you just have to I think that we have a new generation of people coming up who fortunately are able to for the most part in Canada come out and live authentically at a much younger age. And so I think that they will be stronger for that and they will reach

kind of the the the queer adulthood at a much younger age. I'm taking lessons from them. I've said this a million times before. I'm taking lessons from them because when I first started doing drag I was like okay you're a drag queen you know. I didn't know that until the newer generations are like well you can be more than just drag queen you can be like a drag queen gardener you could be like a drag queen burlesque performer you could be like you could be anything that you

want it you know and and I was like what what I can do that and I have to you know tip my hat to the younger generation for showing that so I could be a drag queen a Nazi boot kicking yeah there we go there we go

Megan Hamilton (48:37)
Well, they also have the benefit of having

⁓

That sounds like a great idea. ⁓ But they also have the benefit. Yes. Yeah, I was like, I think I knew what you meant. I knew what you meant.

Rowena & Tyffanie (48:50)
No, kicking the Nazis, not being the Nazis. Sorry, did I clarify? Maybe I didn't... You knew what I meant? Okay, wait,

I say no. No to Nazis, bad Nazis. Okay, I kicked them to the curb.

Megan Hamilton (49:01)
No thank you. We say no, yeah,

with the boots. Take their boots off and then kick them with them. That's what we're gonna do. But the kids who are coming up also have the benefit of...

Rowena & Tyffanie (49:07)
With the boots. Yeah. Toot, toot, toot, toot or boot.

Megan Hamilton (49:18)
quote unquote, and I'm not talking about anybody on this podcast, but the elder drag queens who have been around for long, because you know, at certain times, ⁓ you know, ⁓ that may not have been the case.

Rowena & Tyffanie (49:34)
Yeah, when I was, yeah.

Megan Hamilton (49:35)
and to see a full life

ahead of you.

Rowena & Tyffanie (49:38)
Oh, no. It's so true. When I was growing up here in Kingston, I had zero queer role models. I didn't know anybody. There was nobody visible to me. There was nobody that I could look up to as someone that I wanted to be or idolize or ask questions to. And so I didn't, I didn't come out until I was 19, 20. Like I didn't start that process. I didn't really learn.

who I was until another five, six years later. And then I didn't really kind of blossom until that happened. And so like you talk about all these people exploring their their youth. was like they queer people for so many years didn't have a youth. We had an adulthood in which we tried to be young. So I'm really excited for the young generation who get to be.

all just like everybody else. Yeah, I'm very jealous of them.

Megan Hamilton (50:41)
Yes. Yes. And they're probably very jealous of you.

So we talked a little bit about the witch's walk and then Rowena, can you tell us about the spellbound drag show and dance that's coming up in Kingston?

Rowena & Tyffanie (50:55)
Yeah ⁓

So I have a tradition now. Every year I have a Halloween show because Halloween is my drag birthday. So what would it be if we did not celebrate that? So this year is my ninth drag birthday and we are doing a drag show and dance party ⁓ celebrating Halloween, celebrating with Bewitched. So there will be a witch at the event and we're gonna be doing a little drag show and then

Megan Hamilton (51:06)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Noooo ⁓

Rowena & Tyffanie (51:27)
dancing the night away with all of the the demons and queer does and all of the fun people that is at daft brewing it's from 730 until whenever you all want to stop dancing basically yeah dancing until I'm dead

Megan Hamilton (51:36)
And that is at daft.

We love DAF.

So much fun. So much fun. ⁓

Exactly. We all want to die doing the thing that we love the most, So I just want to make a quick note to circling back to you were talking about patterns and you were like who buys patterns? Well, I thought I should mention that there is a new store coming.

to Kingston called Wild Bobbin and it's downtown. Have you all seen it? Just across the street from the ⁓ market square.

Rowena & Tyffanie (52:14)
No, I've

heard of it. I'm pretty sure they just followed me on Instagram. think I just followed them back. Of they Like honestly, yeah. course they did, yes. As someone who sews, I like, yeah. I know how to make a moo moo. But yeah, okay.

Megan Hamilton (52:21)
Amazing, amazing. So there will be patterns. you're gonna go bananas. Yeah, yeah.

I have seen the designs for this store and it's gonna be incredible. hopefully then maybe we can have some patterns for all bodies that you can grab from Wild Bobbin whenever they open. She's gonna be like, thanks a lot, Megan. And another thing to add to my list. Sorry, Bree.

Rowena & Tyffanie (52:44)
That would be very cool.

Megan Hamilton (52:50)
Listen, whatever brings people in. ⁓ I love you both so much. It's been such fun having you here. Thank you for all of the incredible work that you do in Kingston, the fun, the jokes, the silliness and the very seriousness, ⁓ all of the activism and the bringing everything to light and your wonderful, wonderful, wonderful hearts. ⁓

Rowena & Tyffanie (52:50)
As long as it brings people in. Yes, yes. Hey, if they got some classes, I may take them.

Megan Hamilton (53:18)
Thank you for being here. It's been an absolute pleasure. I love you guys. Okay.

Rowena & Tyffanie (53:21)
Thank you so much for having us, Megan. Thank you.

Megan Hamilton (53:28)
You can find all of the information and takeaways from today's episode in the show notes or at embracing enchantment.com. Subscribe and follow wherever you get your podcasts and we'd love for you to leave a review. You can also leave a voice note at embracing enchantment.com and we might feature it in a future episode. Find out more about Tyffanie and Rowena and where to follow them in the show notes.

And you're gonna wanna make sure you're subscribed because we have some exciting episodes coming up about witch stones and spells for success. You can catch up on previous episodes where we talked about astrology with Colin Bedell, herbal magic with Camille Freeman, and we spoke with witch podcast host and author Pam Grossman and so much more. Until then, here's to building an enchanted life.